this is the first time i have posted on here in many years..... i seldom visit now although this forum was instrumental to me in gaining my sanity in the early 2000's and recovering from the watchtower religion.. by chance tonight i was on youtube and caught a jw.org video which out of curiosity prompted me to look at the official website and amongst other things i looked up the music section.. why that i hear you ask?
music is my passion and nothing reminds me more or evokes more memories than the kingdom songs i grew up listening to.. i am 49 years old and my mother was baptised in 1974. i grew up in the era of pink songbooks and green bibles.
of the theology of fred franz and types and anti-types.
They are giving out a very green message though. They keep a few scriptures to maintain the collective, then squew the message to polar ice caps.
Do you remember the Panda Tract? What struck me was that the panda was the symbol of the World Wildlife Fund. Maybe they haven't changed that much - maybe that was always there, underlying things.
You never know Number 6, they may bring out a Green Bible again.
back in the day, russell and rutherford would hold debates with other religious leaders.
why has jehovah's witnesses stopped doing that?
i think it would be very interesting to see how they would hold up on a debate now.
Hi Smiddy - I know that in the past some were excellent at debate. I know one who is still outstanding at debate and could knock the socks off most BUT relies on others not knowing certain things. So he doesn't end up debating the pack of lies.
He can teach you some excellent stuff - but if you catch him out he turns.
"the watchtower society is not a religious society for 👥 public worship, such as a ⛪️ church, but is a 💲 business corporation..."
➡️ please use and demonstrate this if you are involved in any legal action, it's not about religious rights and freedom, this is where they are 'fooling' their followers and authorities❗️
➡️ the purpose of disfellowshipping, disassociating and shunning are 'legalistic and pharisaical tricks' to 'name and shame' anyone asking (the right) questions about it's biblical teachings (aka) doctrines, (abuse) policies and the real truth about the 'truth' (aka apostate)❗️
As Tater-T said
The focus needs to be on the fact that they have charitable tax exempt status
But they are a business
This is what I put in a letter to all the elders in my old congregation. They were attempting to bring me to a judicial for sticking to the scriptures. So I put it to them:-
Also, how are your actions in harmony with the charitable purpose of the xxxxx xxxxxxx congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses? The charitable purpose of the congregation is teaching Christianity. But you are not teaching Christianity if you are bullying Christians into acting against their Bible trained consciences. All of Jesus Christ’s teachings are beneficial and for our good. Jesus was the greatest witness that Jehovah, his Father is the true God. The words in the book of Daniel contain the 70 and 69 prophetic weeks, showing the timing for the Messiah. How can changing the words in the book of Daniel benefit anyone wanting to study the Bible and get the truth?
i thought i would start a thread listing the social behavior controls the jws religion places over its devoted followers just to arrive at an overall perspective of what this religion actually does to people while actively in it... starting off ........ 1.the interpretation of the bible by its leaders which can not be criticized or the doctrines which these men create, to do so would provoke punishment, shunning and accordingly identified as an evil person.. 2.the pressing restraint of associating with non-jws in daily social activities such as schools for children, adults in work places, local community events, charities etc.
3, dress restraints placed onto both sexes such as no pants worn at kingdom halls for woman, no wearing of yoga pants in public, no beards in most cases for men, hair has to be not over the ears for men.
suits have to be worn for men while giving public talks, shirts and ties should be worn during meetings at kingdom halls.
The handing out of privileges by elders. For example, if you want to be an elder, do something useful for the Coordinatior. Up to a point that kind of behaviour is ok but it becomes very political and warps Christian values which the congregation is supposed to be adhearing to.
i thought i would start a thread listing the social behavior controls the jws religion places over its devoted followers just to arrive at an overall perspective of what this religion actually does to people while actively in it... starting off ........ 1.the interpretation of the bible by its leaders which can not be criticized or the doctrines which these men create, to do so would provoke punishment, shunning and accordingly identified as an evil person.. 2.the pressing restraint of associating with non-jws in daily social activities such as schools for children, adults in work places, local community events, charities etc.
3, dress restraints placed onto both sexes such as no pants worn at kingdom halls for woman, no wearing of yoga pants in public, no beards in most cases for men, hair has to be not over the ears for men.
suits have to be worn for men while giving public talks, shirts and ties should be worn during meetings at kingdom halls.
1.The interpretation of the bible by its leaders which can not be criticized or the doctrines which these men create, to do so would provoke punishment, shunning and accordingly identified as an evil person.
Would like to add that you don't realise this when you study with them. They tell you if the WBTS has got anything wrong they will change it. But they don't tell you WHEN they'll change it (like never or not until it suits them).
Also they don't tell you that if YOU CORRECTLY identify they have got something wrong and inform them, YOU will be ignored because it is not your position to blow the whistle. If you do so you will be accused of being another channel to FDS. Even if the information you are pointing out is from the Bible itself. GB of WBTS trumps Bible.
wbts rewrites/carefully edits their own history.
since 2005, i have been through a lot with with wbts.
recently i came across a suggestions that they will start denying that they ever said satan was hurled out of heaven in 1914.. in my experience, it is one doctrine many ordinary members are clear about - you ask them what supposedly took place in 1914 and they'll say, "satan was hurled out of heaven, therefore world war i started.".
Hi Listener - thanks for pointing out that they are saying 'about' 1914. Very interesting. I get the sense they are keenly fishing around for a new date. But I wonder if they will succeed. I understand GB know its wrong, its old news to them.
From what I have read, I get the impression C T Russell was expecting a war from 1911 onwards. So it was lucky dip with the numbers and with 1914 he came up lucky.
But was it just luck? The reason I say this is because the WBTS 1914 lie falls by a scripture in Ezekiel, Ezekiel 40:1. It falls without any dates just on the simple mathematics.
Ezekiel 40:1 is an unusual scripture because time is being counted backwards. Jerusalem fell in the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar. The 14th year after its fall was the 25th year of Jehoiachin's exile. So 19 14 - yes, but not as they know it. Ezekiel 40:1 deals the final hammer blow to their conjuring trick of trying to make out King Jehoiachin had an 8th year of rulership, when he only ruled for 3 months and 10 days.
So will WBTS be able to switch dates? Or are they going to be stuck with it and thereby struck down by it? Have to wait and see.
Here's a chart I did showing the 7 key scriptures you need to see through their conjuring trick - wont display in Internet Explorer but seems ok in other browsers.
the world is getting worse, for example children are getting more cheeky!.
proof positive!
.
Oh don't give them ideas.
there are questions that come up from time to time that i need an answer to or a quotation from the watchtower literature to support....but not necessarily worthy of devoting an entire new thread to.
if anyone has a questions that they would like answered, why not post it on this thread and see if our collective can be of assistance in answering it.. here is mine for today: .
would a person who has a blood transfusion automatically be disassociating himself from the jehovah's witnesses?
No one should be disfellowshipped for trying to save their life.
But for the record, non-blood medical management is the safest form of treatment if the option is available to you. In part, I am speaking from my own involvement (I played a very small part) in changing health policy throughout a large part of UK. Studies brought to the attention of the health services showed that in relation to certain kinds of cancer, if you did not have a blood transfusion the chances of a better outcome for you were much improved. Moreover, it was cheaper. So much so the military were interested.
The evidence was so overwhelming that clinicians and judiciary approved the change in policy very quickly. If I remember correctly the policy change was to use cell salvage rather than give a transfusion.
Non JW family members have undergone surgery without blood and have come through well. GP friends who at one time felt blood was necessary have changed their minds and would opt to not have a blood transfusion if possible.
But in my case I got df'd for sticking to the words of the prophet Daniel. But there are plenty of things they'll turn a blind eye to when it suits them as Sir82 said.
wbts rewrites/carefully edits their own history.
since 2005, i have been through a lot with with wbts.
recently i came across a suggestions that they will start denying that they ever said satan was hurled out of heaven in 1914.. in my experience, it is one doctrine many ordinary members are clear about - you ask them what supposedly took place in 1914 and they'll say, "satan was hurled out of heaven, therefore world war i started.".
Yup and that puts them in pole position to compel members to be marked with the number 666. Just another bit of new light.
the world is getting worse, for example children are getting more cheeky!.
proof positive!
.
My suggestion for a reply is, "well I think you are being cheeky coming to my door and I bet even you have serious misgivings about what you are doing. Also I bet you wonder what on earth people think of you. Please leave your leaflet in the green wheelie bin. Thank you. Good bye."
Could also have said, "what are you doing here? Aren't you supposed to be chained to a trolley in the High Street?"
